Conflicted responses
First, there was this reaction from Darrel himself:
I should have given a title for my blog. I really didn't want it to be perceived as one more essay on love. I was hoping to make the point that for our conversation what we're doing is about humility in the face of truth. When this exists love is the natural bi-product. This, I think is the grounding for what Paul is doing in the I Cor. 13.I'm sorry about that, Darrel, but it is a good object lesson on one of the struggles of conversation: I often don't exactly get the point, and sometimes we struggle to voice what we're really thinking. Thankfully, Darrel has been longsuffering in our discussions, so here is another opportunity for him to practice that grace!
Next, this creationist reader happily agreed with Darrel:
Actually, I very much like what he wrote. Hard to do, yes, but there must be a commitment to behave in a way which includes concern for the well being of others. That is captured in the Old Testament concept of truth - emet, which includes the idea being factually correct and relationally faithful.Yes, I too like the ideal that he communicates: the idea of Christian humility and love, even amidst difficult disagreements. That is very appealing.
Others were far more suspicious of unspoken motives of gathering influence and personal power to eliminate resistance:
...these “take-no-prisoners” communities of evangelicals will eagerly throw gasoline on any sparks of dissent in conservative colleges, broadcast it to the world, and hope progressives take the colleges. Is this love?Yikes! You know, I have the same kind of worries all the time, especially as we make part of our conversation more public. On the one hand I think that we're doing a better job of handling our disagreement than a lot of others in the current debate. On the other hand, I am deeply concerned that my activity will merely promote Darrel's views. After all, if I can sit in a room with Darrel and affirm that he is a brother in Christ, then maybe someone might think that his views on evolution are also acceptable? So my attempt to address what I see as a severely defective debate becomes an opportunity for unsavory opponents to destroy me and Christians like me. It's like going to war to demonstrate a commitment to passive nonviolence and getting killed in the first skirmish.
(Let me clarify that I don't believe that Darrel is an "unsavory opponent" who desires my destruction, but I know that many people in his "camp" would use the vulnerability of our conversation against me and against creationism. I've spent enough time with Darrel to know very personally that he is absolutely sincere in his motives to increase our mutual understanding. He's not out to get me. In fact, I think he kind of likes me.)
Of course, the risk is not just mine. I'm not some creationist loon looking for bigfoot or finding Bible codes; I'm not easily dismissed as a crank. I've got the training and background and experience to make very articulate and thoughtful arguments in a winsome way. All that, and I'm humble too! (These are the jokes, folks.) Our conversation could also swing bystanders to my way of thinking, so there is mutual risk.
Other readers were nitpickers, and boy, can I relate (I'm only using the term nitpick because I can't think of a better word for "raise lots of factual objections all at the same time.").
... he has more faith in his "God-given mind" Really??!! It has been proven over and over that our minds can fool us and they do fool us. Eve used her "God-given mind" and was fooled and she knew God "face to face" and Adam was persuaded by Eve. His mind also was fooled. "Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight." IS.5:21
This happens a lot in our conversations. I ask a question, and Darrel gives a long response full of things I want to nitpick. It goes the other way, too. Every time we open our mouths, it's like we open a can of worms. Over and over and over again. That's why after nearly two years, we're still at it. We're buried in worms.
Should we really trust our minds? I think not. Of course, we could raise the same question about our ability to understand the Bible, but I nevertheless think there is something important in this objection. The heart is deceitful above all things, and nature does not speak for itself.
Should we really trust our minds? I think not. Of course, we could raise the same question about our ability to understand the Bible, but I nevertheless think there is something important in this objection. The heart is deceitful above all things, and nature does not speak for itself.
I also got this curious claim:
I think our model of origins is based more on our assumptions about the world than science. We normally only admit evidence that supports our assumptions about origins. And most people do not feel secure enough to let their assumptions be challenged by what others consider to be evidence. There are exceptions, of course, but I think they are exceptions. Those who do change their beliefs about origins, do so because they change their assumptions about origins. And I think this is usually for non-scientific reasons. Someone might do so for scientific reasons, but I am not sure. This may sound like I am pretty skeptical about science. But I fully support science - if it is used to tell us about God's world. I am only skeptical about it telling us about origins.Honestly, I don't think that way. The thing about assumptions is that they often run into data like a car hitting a mountain. I don't think that any old origins model can fit the data, whether the data come from the Bible or from creation itself. This point might be challenging for nonscientists to understand, or it might simply be difficult for scientists to explain. But the basic idea is that data only fits well with some assumptions but not others. Scientists have been working for centuries on things we cannot directly observe, and in that time poor models (phlogiston for example) are replaced by better models. Ideology can and does play a role in that process, but scientists aren't free to make any old claim they want. I might not think that creation is as perfectly clear as Darrel does, but I don't think I'm free to impose on it ill-fitting interpretive models.
That said, I do have my darker moods that make me wonder if we're ever going to make any progress at all.
Finally, I got this:
God is a God of love, but He is also a God of judgment and we don't like to think about that part.Yes, I keep reminding everyone reading and listening that truth matters. Grace is awesome, but truth matters! I think of it like Paul's admonition about sin and grace: God's grace covers our sin, but that isn't a license for us to live like the devil so that "grace may abound." So too, I think that God's grace covers our erroneous beliefs, but that isn't a license to ignore or downplay bad theology. We really ought to care about truth, even while we recognize that truth isn't the only thing we're called to care about.
OK, that's enough for now. I have my own reaction to Darrel's most recent essay, but I'll wait until next week to post that (and it will have a fun lesson in sociobiology too). In the meantime, I'm enjoying the knowledge that Darrel will now experience his own chorus of conflicting reactions to my readers' comments. Ha ha!
Feedback? Email me at toddcharleswood [at] gmail [dot] com.